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Rambam, Zohar and wearing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed

 
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Rabbi_Yisrael



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanhedrin Webmaster wrote:
In any event, NO ONE takes the Zohar for halacha....



I'm glad you THINK that, it shows that we are somewhat on the same page.

The unfortunate reality is ZOHAR (and ZOHAR-ISH works) is/are used as "Psuedo-Halalcha" for many things like Levi'im (lewi'im) Washing Kohanim, washing after touching your shoe, how Kohanim cover their hands while blessing, etc.

NOT to mention WEARING TEFILLIN ON CHOL HAMOED!!!!!!! See Shulchan Aruch for that ZOHAR "HALACHA"

You will find the ZOHAR in the works of HALACHA called the Mishna Berurah as well as "Kitzur shulchan aruch," Shulcah Harav etc.

So the Zohar interfers with wearing TEFFILIN (Halacha MiSinai ! ), and some other Greater/lesser offenses ....

It is not some harmless book of Agaditah/midrash....




It is also a veil to Nevuah, a misdirection of efforts, and I feel the "Zohar" has bee a thorn in the side of Geulah/Mosheach for quite a while....

This may be it's ultimate dammage...."Mosheach Be'Zmano"

------------------

Baruch,

"Mitpachat Sefarim" is not in print at this time. I paid 300 plus shekel for it in Geulah...if you can find it. I would like to print up just the first ( and best) part of it, in a small soft-cover for cheap.....but that time has not come yet. (lack of funds) Embarassed
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rabbi_Yisrael. wrote:
NOT to mention WEARING TEFILLIN ON CHOL HAMOED!!!!!!! See Shulchan Aruch for that ZOHAR "HALACHA"

The Bais Yosef (O.C. 31 s.v. V’cholo) notes that all Sephardic Jews refrain from wearing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. He cites at length from the Midrash Hane’elam to Shir Hashirim that presents a Kabbalistic explanation for refraining from wearing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. In fact, the Zohar strongly advocates refraining from wearing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. We should note that many Kabbalistic themes have been incorporated into the Halachos of Tefillin. For example, see Shulchan Aruch 25:2, 25:11, and 25:13.

However the basis for this halacha is not the Zohar, but other Rishonim: (the Zohar is only quoted to lend support for one view over the other). The Behag (cited by Tosafos Moed Katan 19a s.v. Rabbi Yosi) rules that we are forbidden to wear Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. Many Rishonim agree with the Behag’s assertion. These Rishonim include the Rambam (as interpreted by the Kesef Mishna to Hilchos Yom Tov 7:13), the Rashba (Teshuvos 1:690), and the Ri (cited by the Hagos Maimonios Hilchos Tefillin 4:9). These authorities believe that if Yom Tov is excluded from wearing Tefillin, Chol Hamoed should also be excluded from wearing Tefillin. They believe that Chol Hamoed constitutes a Yom Tov, and therefore constitutes an Ote.

Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik (Shiurim L’zeicher Abba Mori Zal 1:118-120) further explains this opinion. The Rav notes that there are four components of the Kedushas Hayom (the holiness of the day) of a Yom Tov. These are the Korban Mussaf, the unique Mitzvos of the day (such as the Mitzva to eat in a Sukkah or to avoid Chametz), the obligation on individuals to bring the Korbanos of the Festivals (Re'iya, Chagiga, Shalmei Simcha), and the prohibition to engage in Melacha (forbidden labor). All four components pertain to Chol Hamoed. Although certain Melacha is permitted on Chol Hamoed, the Rav explains that fundamentally, the prohibition to perform Melacha applies to Chol Hamoed. However, the Gemara (Chagiga 18a) explains that the Torah permits us to engage in certain Melacha on Chol Hamoed. Hence, Chol Hamoed enjoys the full status of Yom Tov. The Rav cites Rav Chaim Soloveitchik’s assertion that Chol Hamoed is as holy as any Yom Tov. There merely exists permission to engage in certain Melacha on Chol Hamoed.

Based on: http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/tefillinONmoed.htm
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Rabbi_Yisrael



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHAME ON THAT PAPER!

It can be proven very easily the RAMBAM does NOT put the full Kedusha of MOED on CHOL Hamoed....that Chol Hamoed was sanctified by "Divrei Sofrim" (Hilchot Svitat Yom Tov Perek 7, pasuk 1)

RAMBAM permits the WRITTING of teffilin on Chol_hamoed For YOURSELF- e.g. if you NEED Tefilin you can write them for youself!, (...let alone the wearing of teffilin stam on Chol Hamoed..... Keep in mind all melachot is only for the needs of the Chol Hamoed, or a Hefsed Merubah....)

(Mishna Torah, Hilchot Shvitat Yom Tov, Perek 7, Pasuk 12)


The paper you cite also seems to be full of Tosafotist quotings of a Gaoninc work (behag), a Reshon etc.... But before we say the Geonic work of halacha the "BEHAG" says "XYZ", I would like to see more original source material...not some INTERPRETATION (of that older source) brought down by a later tosfotist (Ri) authority....


ESPECIALY when the RAMBAM is so SEVERLY TWISTED by those wishing to find support against the Talmud.

Rabbi (Samuch?) Karo was deeply influenced by the Zohar. (On that we agree.)

When you cite support from the ZOHAR, you are using it as a HALACHIC work (wich it NOT Supposed to be, even according to you.)
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
RAMBAM permits the WRITTING of teffilin on Chol_hamoed For YOURSELF- e.g. if you NEED Tefilin you can write them for youself!, (...let alone the wearing of teffilin stam on Chol Hamoed..... Keep in mind all melachot is only for the needs of the Chol Hamoed, or a Hefsed Merubah....)

The Rambam doesn't actually say that. He does not specify what "need" is implied by the word "leatzmo" that allows one to write Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. It could be "need to wear" on Chol Hamoed. It could be "need to wear" immediately after Chol Hamoed (possible hefsed?). It could be related to the "need" to make a living, as the next few words say. It could be some other "need".

הלכות שביתת יום טוב פרק ז: יב [יג]
ואסור לכתוב במועד, אפילו ספרים תפילין ומזוזות. ואין מגיהין אפילו אות אחת בספר העזרה, מפני שזו מלאכה שאינה לצורך המועד. אבל כותב הוא אדם תפילין ומזוזה לעצמו, וטווה תכלת לבגדו. ואם אין לו מה יאכל, כותב ומוכר לאחרים כדי פרנסתו.

In any event this Rambam is not clear and I would trust the Kesef Mishna and the other Rishonim over any logic that I might be able to come up with.

Quote:
ESPECIALY when the RAMBAM is so SEVERLY TWISTED by those wishing to find support against the Talmud.

This touches on claims of "true Torah" (which the Rambam is supposed to have) and "twisted Torah" or "Galus mentality" (which is what the majority of Jews today believe). This has generated hundreds of posts on this forum. I am not sure if we want to go through that again...

Quote:
When you cite support from the ZOHAR, you are using it as a HALACHIC work

With all due respect, I disagree. When discussing the various merits of one halachic view over another, a wide variety of sources may be used: aggadah, midrash, science, etc. The Rambam himself quoted non-Jewish astronomers in his discussions on the Jewish calendar. They were certainly not a halachic source. These discussions can lend weight to one halachic opinion over another, but the halacha cannot be derived from these sources.


Last edited by Binyomin on Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rabbi_Yisrael



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAMBAM forbids writting for others (such as teffilin) So your premise is FALSE. And he permits writting for "yourself"

The Halacha in the Rambam forbids writting "Ano leTzorech Hamoed" מפני שזו מלאכה שאינה לצורך המועד

How much clearer can it get? If you have a Personal NEED to write teffilin (for Yourself) you can, for others (unless "you have not what to EAT") you cannot.



You are seriosly trying to complicate a SIMPLE matter because you are dead wrong.



Quote:
Rambam himself quoted non-Jewish astronomers in his discussions on the Jewish calendar


ASTRONOMYis a Calculative Science, like MATH, PHYSICS etc.

For example: You need GEOMETRY to say build a Mikdash plumb and level, and even to build the very stepped foundations....

They are "facts as we know them" they are not Halacha, but aid in CALCULATING, or arriving at FACTUAL truths....

It is not at all like using a "Midrash" or a "Zohar" as wheight on Halachic scales.

Your logic fails you.


Quote:
I would trust the Kesef Mishna and the other Rishonim over any logic that I might be able to come up with.


FIRST try and qoute ORIGINAL SOURCES. (not a lame Simple Search Paper) Tell my WHY the Kesef Mishnah says "XYZ"?

(is it because of RAMABM HILCHOT TEFFILIN where RAMBAM says no wearing of teffilin on Yom Tov? If so, it is a circular argument, because RAMBAM would be at odds with the Kessef Mishna on the very definition of Yom Tov etc.!)
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How much clearer can it get? If you have a Personal NEED to write teffilin (for Yourself) you can, for others (unless "you have not what to EAT") you cannot

But this is unusual and unlike other permitted malachos on Chol Hamoed and not the only interpretation. For example: If you personally have no Tefillin and you need to write during Chol Hamoed to have them ready for immediately after Yom Tov (Tefillin being like four or more mezuzos and usually taking more than 1 day to complete), you can. However you cannot write for others unless "you have not what to eat".

Quote:
FIRST try and qoute ORIGINAL SOURCES. (not a lame Simple Search Paper) Tell my WHY the Kesef Mishnah says "XYZ"?

With all due respect, I continue to hold that this Rambam is not clear, and we need to go looking for his orignal sources. The Rambam does NOT specifically say whether one should wear Tefillin on Chol Hamoed or not. The Rambam is vague and I would trust the Kesef Mishna and the other Rishonim over any logic or interpretion or "filling in the words" that you or I might be able to come up with.

The point of wearing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed is disputed in halacha. Disagreeing with what you said previously, it is a dispute based in the Rishonim, not the Zohar. Some Rishonim cite as proof to their position the fact that the Gemara permits writing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. They argue that Chazal would not have permitted writing Tefillin on Chol Hamoed had there been no use for the Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. Other Rishonim argues that this passage in the Gemara represents the rejected opinions that believe that one may wear Tefillin on Shabbos and Yom Tov. The Kesef Mishnah holds that the Rambam actually agrees with these Rishonim. The fact that the Zohar tipped the scales for the Mechaber is only because the arguments of both sets of Rishonim are so compelling.

This issue has been tackled by some of our greatest halachic thinkers, without resolve. I cannot believe I will add anything to the discussion.

BE"H, at some point the Sanhedrin will pasken on these issues, and may that speed our unity on all levels, and the coming of Moshiach!


Last edited by Binyomin on Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:19 pm; edited 8 times in total
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume from your posts that you are a Rambamist?

In talking with Rabbi Stein, he mentioned that it just so happens that the nascent Sanhedrin is at this moment in the middle of discussions that touch on the authority/authenticity of the Zohar.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With all due respect, I continue to hold that this Rambam is not clear, and we need to go looking for his orignal sources. The Rambam does NOT specifically say whether one should wear Tefillin on Chol Hamoed or not


Rambam:

A) Defines Chol Hamoed as RABBINIC in nature.

B) Permits writting of Teffilin on Chol Hamoed For Ones self.

(granted it might take a person more than 1 day if he was a slow/carerful Sofer...but Chol Hamoed is More than ONE DAY, and in Eretz Yisrael is about 5 days....why the rush? Rolling Eyes Let's not pilpul the term "Needs for himself" to extend to writting teffilin for 5 days to wear on the 6th!)

I ask for
Quote:
Original sources
(as I qouted for thr RAMBAM) BECAUSE, when annother uses a source, they do so through THIER filter/ pre-concieved notions....

I would simply like us to find out if KESEF MISHNA feels the halacha "against" wearing on chol hamoed is found because of the definition of Yom Tov itself.

If the kesef mishna interprets Chol Hamoed as fulll Yom tov, he is then in dis-agreement with the RAMBAM on the matter of Chol Hamoed, conversly he is free to say "The rambam supports me" look at the Isur of wearing teffilin on Yom Tov!!!!

I just want to know the EXACT place where the kessef Mishna is reputed to have said this....

Is that so bad?



SECONDLY

With this argument we have strayed from my other points.

Levites washing Kohanic hands (not done in the Miqdaash!)

Kohanim covering hands durring the bracha.

Washing after touching the shoe.

Psakim that are supposed to be Zoharisticly inspired (if not based).

NU?


Quote:
In talking with Rabbi Stein, he mentioned that it just so happens that the nascent Sanhedrin is at this moment in the middle of discussions that touch on the authority/authenticity of the Zohar.


Thank you for the info.

Many Pro-Talmud (not just RAMBAM) forces have been driven away by the Avodah Zarah of Kever Rachel, and the Sanhedren's "rulings" (actualy statement by subcommitie) about praying to Rachel or her kever.....

Nasi Stiensaltz is a noted Kabbalist....

Nasi Eidan was at least open to my severe critizicims, if he disagreed (and he often did) I knew the truth (as I see it) would get "equal time"...

No Sanhedren of today would have the guts to declare the Zohar a Fake (at least concerning Authorship by Rabbi Bar Yochai) but their is a danger they would try to "cannonize" it.


I honestly wonder outloud if it would be worth my time....
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
granted it might take a person more than 1 day if he was a slow/careful Sofer...but Chol Hamoed is More than ONE DAY, and in Eretz Yisrael is about 5 days....why the rush? Rolling Eyes Let's not pilpul the term "Needs for himself" to extend to writing teffilin for 5 days to wear on the 6th!
I was only trying to show that there are other possible interpretations, for example: If one were to begin writing the Tefillin on the day after Yom Tov, it probably would not be finished that day and one would have missed out on putting on Tefillin for one day. That being the case, it could be argued that this ruling permits him to start writing on Chol Hamoed so that it will be ready on time (for the first day AFTER Yom Tov).

Another possible approach would be to argue that even though the mitzvah of putting on Tefillin is deoraysa, the days when and when not to put them is not. It is on the order of a takanah. According to this approach because it is possible to put on Tefillin on Chol Hamoed, one may also write them on Chol Hamoed. But there is no chiuv deoraysa to put them on on Chol Hamoed. Those who hold that Chol Hamoed is an "ote" like Yom Tov would not, and those who hold otherwise would. The does not explain the use of "leatzmo" though.

Quote:
I would simply like us to find out if KESEF MISHNA feels the halacha "against" wearing on chol hamoed is found because of the definition of Yom Tov itself.
I seem to remember that the Kesef Mishna argues that the Rambam really agrees that Chol Hamoed is like Yom Tov. I will need to look that up.

Quote:
With this argument we have strayed from my other points. Levites washing Kohanic hands (not done in the Miqdaash!) Kohanim covering hands durring the bracha.
These are minhagim, not psak halacha.

Quote:
Washing after touching the shoe.
This is from the Zohar?

Quote:
Many Pro-Talmud (not just RAMBAM) forces have been driven away by the Avodah Zarah of Kever Rachel, and the Sanhedren's "rulings" (actually statement by subcommitie) about praying to Rachel or her kever.....
None of these are official/final that I know of.

Quote:
Nasi Stiensaltz is a noted Kabbalist....
Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi was as well, yet in his Shulchan Aruch HaRav, he was careful to try and clearly separate minhag from halacha, zohar and midrash from other sources.

Quote:
Nasi Eidan was at least open to my severe criticisms, if he disagreed (and he often did) I knew the truth (as I see it) would get "equal time"...
As webmaster, I will endeavor to do my best to allow all halachic viewpoints "equal time" on this forum.

Quote:
No Sanhedrin of today would have the guts to declare the Zohar a Fake (at least concerning Authorship by Rabbi Bar Yochai) but their is a danger they would try to "canonize" it.
There are other options being discussed besides declaring it a fake or canonizing it.

Its not a matter of "guts". There are significant problems in declaring invalid something which has been so widely accepted by the Jewish people. It has been argued that near universal acceptance by the Jewish people (like wearing a kippah*) is in lieu of a Sanhedrin, and may have similar binding authority.

* While there is a minority opinion that wearing a kippah is a Torah commandment, most halachic decisors agree that it is merely a custom. The prevailing view among Rabbinical authorities is that this custom has taken on the force of law (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayim 2:6), because it is an act of Kiddush Ha-Shem, "Sanctifying the Holy Name". From a strictly talmudic point of view, however, the only moment when a Jewish man is required to cover his head is during prayer (Mishne Torah, Ahavah, Hilkhos Tefilah 5:5).
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the Kesef Mishna. He says that because the Rambam includes the word "leatzmo" it proves that one does not put on Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. Because if Tefillin were worn on Chol Hamoed one would be to write for others as well.

The Mishna Berura says that one is permitted to write Tefillin, Mezuzos and prepare Tzitzit on Chol Hamoed because it is a mitzvah overes. Mitzvah overes can be compared to a davar 'aved, and one is permitted to do maaseh uman for such a reason on Chol Hamoed even though it is for after the festival.

The Rambam does not hold that Chol Hamoed is like Yom Tov. Chol Hamoed he says is divrei sofrim.

Although the Rambam in his introduction says that he wrote the Mishneh Torah so that "anyone" could understand it without having to use other sources. This point was disputed by the Raavad and others, and was not accepted by normative halacha. This is one of the places where the Rambam was not clear and we require additional explanation (interpretation). Referring to an earlier comment, explaining should NOT be seen as "twisting" the Rambam.
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Baruch



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Although the Rambam in his introduction says that he wrote the Mishneh Torah so that "anyone" could understand it without having to use other sources. This point was disputed by the Raavad and others, and was not accepted by normative halacha. This is one of the places where the Rambam was not clear and we require additional explanation (interpretation). Referring to an earlier comment, explaining should NOT be seen as "twisting" the Rambam.


You are saying that the Raavad disputed the Rambam's intentions.
It is certainly valid to dispute the Rambam's views. The Rambam clearly says that anyone can understand his work with out looking at any other sources. I can understand a widespread opposition using only the Rambam as we should also learn opposing views.
However how can one dispute what the Rambam's intentions were?
The Ravad knew better than the Rambam what he meant to say?

The Rambam stated his views clearly so we can't use interpretation to change what he said.

With regards to Tefilin on Chol Hamoed. The Rambam as well as the Gmara specifically states that Tefillin are not put on Shabat and Yom Tov.
As they don't bring Chol Hamoed up it is clearly implied that they hold that it is put on , on Chol Hamoed.
There are many things that came up later that the Gmara or the Rambam didn't discuss. But why would the Rambam forgett to tell us that he doesn't put Tefillin on Chol Hamoed. He said Shabat and Yom Tov and simply forgot to say Chol Hamoed? The Rambam in other places makes a clear distinction between Chol Hamoed and Yom Tov.
The Rambam certaily didn't intend for us to analyze the words he used regarding writting Tefillin to understand this.
The Rambam is known to have been very carefull and accurate about every word he said. He did not mean Yom Tov to include Chol Hamoed.

I am not a Rambamist and I have no problem with disputing the Rambam's view but lets not claim the Rambam held views which he didn't hold.
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Binyomin



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baruch wrote:
You are saying that the Raavad disputed the Rambam's intentions.
I didn't mean intentions. The Ra'avad specifically disagreed with the Rambam that the Mishneh Torah was sufficient in and of itself to be understood without going back to the sources. There are some places where normative halachah does not agree with the Rambam. There are some halachas that the Rambam left out, and there are some places -- like this one -- that were left unclear.

Baruch wrote:
With regards to Tefilin on Chol Hamoed. The Rambam as well as the Gmara specifically states that Tefillin are not put on Shabat and Yom Tov. As they don't bring Chol Hamoed up it is clearly implied that they hold that it is put on , on Chol Hamoed.
It is not so clear. The Rambam does not explain the unusual word "leatzmo", which differentiates writing Tefillin from almost every other melacho on Chol Hamoed.

The Rambam is only quoting the gemara, and it doesn't necessary follow that Tefillin is put on during Chol Hamoed because one is allowed to write it on Chol Hamoed. Perhaps writing is allowed to prepare for after Chol Hamoed? There is a machloches rishonim over this matter and the Rambam doesn't add anything to the explanation.

Baruch wrote:
I am not a Rambamist and I have no problem with disputing the Rambam's view but lets not claim the Rambam held views which he didn't hold.
How do you understand the inclusion of "leatzmo"? The Kesef Mishnah uses the Rambam's inclusion of the word "leatzmo" to prove that we should not wear Tefillin on Chol Hamoed, however there are other opinions as I brought earlier in this thread.

Last edited by Binyomin on Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baruch



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Rambam is only quoting the gemara, and it doesn't necessary follow that Tefillin is put on during Chol Hamoed because one is allowed to write it on Chol Hamoed. Perhaps writing is allowed to prepare for after Chol Hamoed? There is a machloches rishonim over this matter and the Rambam doesn't add anything to the explanation.


True it doesn't necessarily mean that Tefillin is put on Chol Hamoed.

Quote:
How do you understand the inclusion of "leatzmo"? The Keshef Mishnah uses the Rambam's inclusion of the word "leatzmo" to prove that we should not wear Tefillin on Chol Hamoed, however there are other opinions as I brought earlier in this thread.


I am not sure how to understand the inclusion of "leatzmo" but I think that the Keshef Mishna is using a big pilpul to understand the Rambam.
Again I will say it is certainly valid for the Kesef Mishna to be of the view that you don't put on Tefillin on Chol Hamoed, however this does not make it the Rambam's view.

I just find it very very unlikely that the Gmara and the Rambam who summarizes the Gmara would specifically discuss Tefillin on Shabat and on Yom Tov and forget to discuss Chol Hamoed. The only implication that one can make is that Chol Hamoed is like all other days. Unlike Shabat and Yom Tov they are not different. That is why they discuss Shabat and Yom Tov to tells us that they are different with regards to Tefillin.

If we didn't have these other views which say that you don't put Tefillin on Chol Hamoed no one would think of the pilpulim that are made by the Kesef Mishana and others.
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